can you do a phd in your 40s

Older PhDs student experiences – should you pursue a PhD later in life?

In today’s world, it’s not uncommon for individuals to change careers or pursue higher education later on in life.

For those considering a PhD program at an older age, there may be some hesitations and concerns about the experience.

• Will it be worth it?
• How difficult is it to balance academic responsibilities with other commitments such as family and work?
• What are the experiences of older PhD candidates?
• And many more questions…

In this article, we will explore the unique challenges and rewards of pursuing a PhD later in life, and share the insights and experiences of older PhD candidates.

Whether you’re considering a career change or simply seeking personal growth, read on to discover if pursuing a PhD is right for you.

Two specific case studies:

This case study explores the experiences of two mature PhD students, who despite their age, successfully navigated through their doctoral programs.

These students come from diverse backgrounds, having pursued their PhDs in Marketing and Computer Engineering. Their stories highlight the importance of determination, support systems, and practical experiences in achieving their academic goals.

Case 1: Marketing PhD Student at 48

Background:.

This student began their PhD journey at the age of 43, having accumulated 15 years of corporate experience, 5 years of teaching, and some consulting work. They decided to pursue a PhD after talking with their advisor during their master’s program.

Challenges:

One of the main challenges faced by this student was knowing when to stop working and take breaks. Managing workload and maintaining mental health were essential aspects of their PhD journey.

Key Factors for Success:

The student emphasized the importance of having a good advisor and a support network. Their prior experience in the corporate world helped them form interesting and relevant research questions. This also made them more relatable to students when teaching.

The student is now in the final stages of their PhD and has been offered a tenure-track assistant professor position at a university in New York.

Case 2: Computer Engineering PhD Student at 32

This student completed their PhD at the age of 32, having taken five years off after their master’s to work in the aerospace industry. They had always planned on getting a PhD and built significant experience in their field during their time off.

Working full-time while pursuing a PhD consumed most of their time, making it difficult to balance work, studies, and personal life. They acknowledged that having children would have added another layer of complexity to their situation.

The student’s success can be attributed to a fantastic advisor, a passionate research topic, and the ability to work from home. Their company’s financial support for their PhD program played a significant role in their decision to continue working full-time.

Having completed their PhD in three years, the student now plans to continue climbing the technical ladder within their company and aims to achieve a Technical Fellowship.

The experiences of these mature PhD students demonstrate the importance of determination, support systems, and real-world experience in successfully completing a doctoral program. Both students managed to overcome challenges and leverage their unique backgrounds to achieve their academic and professional goals.

If you want to know more about how to do a PhD at an older age you can check out my other articles:

• What is the PhD student average age? Too late for your doctorate?
• What is the average masters students age? Should you return to graduate school?
• Typical Graduate Student Age [Data for Average Age]
• Balancing PhD and family life – tips for balancing a busy life

Life Experience Helps with a doctoral degree 

Life experience can be a valuable asset when pursuing a PhD. The journey towards obtaining a doctoral degree can often be challenging and demanding, requiring dedication, hard work, and resilience.

Other benefits can include:

Iindividuals with life experience may have an advantage as they already possess a certain level of maturity, self-discipline, and time-management skills.

Life experience can bring a unique perspective and insight to research, as individuals may draw from their personal experiences to inform their research questions and design.

Moreover, being part of a cohort with diverse backgrounds and experiences can also enrich the doctoral experience, leading to greater learning and growth as a researcher.

You’re never too old to become a PhD student

Age is just a number, and this is especially true when it comes to academic pursuits. It is never too late to do a PhD, as academia welcomes learners of all ages. Long gone are the days when PhD candidates had to be in their early 20s to pursue this degree.

Nowadays, more and more people in their 30s or 40s are pursuing doctoral degrees, and many have even found great success after graduation.

Here are some potential advantages and drawbacks of doing a PhD later in life:

Advantages:

• Greater maturity: You have a better understanding of what you want to do and can focus on your goals.
• Real-world experience: You have a better understanding of real-world problems and can work on more relevant research.
• Stronger mental health: Having other commitments in your life can help you maintain a better work-life balance and prevent you from dwelling on research-related stress.
• Financial resources: You may have more financial resources at your disposal, which can be helpful during your PhD journey.
• Less need for validation: You’re likely pursuing the degree for genuine reasons rather than seeking status or validation.
• Better relationships with professors: You may find it easier to connect with your professors as peers and friends.
• Research relevance: Your research may be more relevant to managers because you’ve experienced management roles.
• Time constraints: You may not have as much time to enjoy the benefits of your PhD, especially if you plan to retire in your 60s.
• Additional life commitments: You may have more personal responsibilities, such as children, a spouse, or aging parents, which can make it more challenging to balance your PhD work.
• Potential need for relocation: You may have to move around for job opportunities, which could be difficult if you have a family or other commitments.
• Opportunity cost: Pursuing a PhD at this stage in life may come at the expense of other career opportunities or financial gains.
• Difficulty in obtaining tenure: You may not obtain tenure until your late 50s, which may be a drawback for some individuals.
• Not a financially sound decision: If you’re pursuing a PhD to make more money, the return on investment may not be as high as you expect.

Older PhD candidates often have a wealth of experience and knowledge that can only enhance their research and academic contributions.

So if you are considering pursuing a postgraduate degree, don’t let your age hold you back. It’s never too old to follow your academic dreams!

If you want to know more about how doing a PhD later in life you can check out my other articles:

Who is the oldest person to do a PhD? 

The oldest person to earn a PhD was a 95-year-old woman named Ingeborg Rapoport.

She was a Jewish-German physician who began her PhD studies in the 1930s but was unable to complete them due to the Nazi regime.

After a successful medical career, she decided to resume her studies in 2008 at the age of 94 at the University of Hamburg in Germany.

Her doctoral thesis focused on diphtheria and included research conducted in the 1930s, making her research especially significant.

In 2015, Rapoport successfully defended her thesis and earned her doctorate, becoming the oldest person in history to do so.

Her achievement received widespread recognition and admiration, and she demonstrated that age is just a number when it comes to academic achievement.

Wrapping up – doing a PhD later in life

In this article, we explore the unique challenges and rewards of pursuing a PhD later in life, drawing from the experiences of older PhD candidates.

Two case studies showcase the importance of determination, support systems, and practical experiences in successfully completing a doctoral program.

Life experience offers numerous benefits for older PhD students, such as a broader perspective, problem-solving skills, transferable skills, time management, an established professional network, emotional resilience, enhanced credibility, motivation and purpose, adaptability, and mentorship opportunities.

Age should not be a barrier to pursuing a PhD, as older candidates often bring valuable real-world experience and knowledge to their research.

Key advantages of pursuing a PhD in your 40s include greater maturity, real-world experience, stronger mental health, financial resources, less need for validation, better relationships with professors, and research relevance.

Drawbacks may include time constraints, additional life commitments, potential need for relocation, opportunity cost, difficulty in obtaining tenure, and lower return on investment.

The oldest person to earn a PhD was 95-year-old Ingeborg Rapoport, exemplifying that it’s never too late to follow your academic dreams.

Dr Andrew Stapleton has a Masters and PhD in Chemistry from the UK and Australia. He has many years of research experience and has worked as a Postdoctoral Fellow and Associate at a number of Universities. Although having secured funding for his own research, he left academia to help others with his YouTube channel all about the inner workings of academia and how to make it work for you.

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Taking On the Ph.D. Later in Life

By Mark Miller

• April 15, 2016

ROBERT HEVEY was fascinated by gardening as a child, but then he grew up and took a 30-year career detour. Mr. Hevey earned a master’s in business and became a certified public accountant, working for accounting firms and businesses ranging from manufacturing to enterprise software and corporate restructuring.

“I went to college and made the mistake of getting an M.B.A. and a C.P.A.,” he recalled with a laugh.

Now 61, Mr. Hevey is making up for lost time. He’s a second-year Ph.D. student in a plant biology and conservation program offered jointly by Northwestern University and the Chicago Botanic Garden. Mr. Hevey, whose work focuses on invasive species, started on his master’s at age 53, and he expects to finish his doctorate around five years from now, when he will be 66.

“When I walk into a classroom of 20-year-olds, I do raise the average age a bit,” he says.

While the overall age of Ph.D. candidates has dropped in the last decade, about 14 percent of all doctoral recipients are over age 40, according to the National Science Foundation. Relatively few students work on Ph.D.s at Mr. Hevey’s age, but educators are seeing increasing enrollment in doctoral programs by students in their 40s and 50s. Many candidates hope doctorates will help them advance careers in business, government and nonprofit organizations; some, like Mr. Hevey, are headed for academic research or teaching positions.

At Cornell University, the trend is driven by women. The number of new female doctoral students age 36 or older was 44 percent higher last year than in 2009, according to Barbara Knuth, senior vice provost and dean of the graduate school.

“One of the shifts nationally is more emphasis on career paths that call for a Ph.D.,” Dr. Knuth said. “Part of it is that we have much more fluidity in career paths. It’s unusual for people to hold the same job for many years.”

“The people we see coming back have a variety of reasons,” she added. “It could be a personal interest or for career advancement. But they are very pragmatic and resilient: strong thinkers, willing to ask questions and take a risk in their lives.”

Many older doctoral candidates are motivated by a search for meaning, said Katrina Rogers, president of Fielding Graduate University in Santa Barbara, Calif., which offers programs exclusively for adult learners in psychology, human and organizational development and education.

“Students are asking what they can do with the rest of their lives, and how they can have an impact,” she said. “They are approaching graduate school as a learning process for challenging themselves intellectually, but also along cognitive and emotional lines.”

Making a home for older students also makes business sense for universities and colleges, said Barbara Vacarr, director of the higher education initiative at Encore.org, a nonprofit organization focused on midlife career change. “The convergence of an aging population and an undersupply of qualified traditional college students are both a call to action and an opportunity for higher education.”

Some schools are serving older students in midcareer with pragmatic doctoral programs that can be completed more quickly than the seven or eight years traditionally required to earn a Ph.D. Moreover, many of those do not require candidates to spend much time on campus or even leave their full-time jobs.

That flexibility can help with the cost of obtaining a doctorate. In traditional programs, costs can range from $20,000 a year to $50,000 or more — although for some, tuition expenses are offset by fellowships. The shorter programs are less costly. The total cost at Fielding, for example, is $60,000.

Susan Noyes, an occupational therapist in Portland, Me., with 20 years’ experience under her belt, returned to school at age 40 for a master’s degree in adult education at the University of Southern Maine, then pursued her Ph.D. at Lesley University in Cambridge, Mass. During that time, she continued to work full time and raise three children. She finished the master’s at 44 — a confidence-builder that persuaded her to work toward a Ph.D. in adult learning, which she earned at age 49.

Dr. Noyes, 53, made two visits annually to Lesley’s campus during her doctoral studies, usually for a week to 10 days. She now works as an assistant professor of occupational therapy at the University of Southern Maine.

At the outset of her graduate education, Dr. Noyes wasn’t looking for a career change. Instead, she wanted to update her skills and knowledge in the occupational therapy field. But she soon found herself excited by the chance to broaden her intellectual horizons. “I’ve often said I accidentally got my Ph.D.,” she said.

Lisa Goff took the traditional Ph.D. path, spending eight years getting her doctorate in history. An accomplished business journalist, she decided to pursue a master’s degree in history at the University of Virginia in 2001 while working on a book project. Later, she decided to keep going for her doctorate, which she earned in 2010, the year she turned 50. Her research is focused on cultural history, with a special interest in landscapes.

Dr. Goff had planned to use the degree to land a job in a museum, but at the time, museum budgets were being cut in the struggling economy. Instead, a university mentor persuaded her to give teaching a try. She started as an adjunct professor in the American studies department at the University of Virginia, which quickly led to a full-time nontenure-track position. This year, her fourth full year teaching, her position was converted to a tenure-track job.

“I thought an academic job would be grueling — not what I wanted at all,” she recalls. “But I love being in the classroom, finding ways to get students to contribute and build rapport with them.”

As a graduate student, she never found the age gap to be a challenge. “Professors never treated me as anything but another student, and the other students were great to me,” Dr. Goff said. The toughest part of the transition, she says, was the intellectual shock of returning to a rigorous academic environment. “I was surprised to see just how creaky my classroom muscles were,” she recalled. “I really struggled in that first class just to keep up.”

Mr. Hevey agrees, saying he has experienced more stress in his academic life than in the business world. “I’m using my brain in such a different way now. I’m learning something new every day.”

His advice to anyone considering a similar move? “Really ask yourself if this is something you want to do. If you think it would just be nice to be a student again, that’s wrong. It’s not a life of ease: You’ll be working all the time, perhaps for seven or eight years.”

Mr. Hevey does not expect to teach, but he does hope to work in a laboratory or do research. “I’m certainly not going to start a new career at 66 or 67,” he said. “But I’m not going to go home and sit on the couch, either.”

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Academics Anonymous: 'Why are you doing a PhD at your age?'

I’m concerned that my age will render my PhD worthless, at least as a passport to an academic career Studying for a humanities PhD can make you feel cut off from humanity

At virtually every conference I've attended as a doctoral candidate, I've noticed a similar reaction whenever I strike up a conversation with my fellow students. They exude a faint, but perceptible air of deference.

Sadly, this is not in recognition of my academic brilliance, but my greying hair and crow's feet, which tacitly suggest that I am more qualified and experienced than I actually am. You may be as young as you feel, but sadly, initial impressions tend to be based on how old you look.

When I reveal that, though I am 42, I am in fact a student, the response is invariably, "Oh, I thought you were an academic." I can't help feeling that this reaction masks an unspoken enquiry: "So why are you doing a PhD at your age?"

This is certainly a question I've asked myself over the past three years of my part-time doctorate, and there still doesn't seem to be any rational answer. I'm spending money I can ill-afford in the pursuit of a qualification, which may or may not offer the slenderest of chances of becoming an academic. I was warned, of course, that the arduous journey of a humanities PhD doesn't offer the guarantee of a job at the end of the process.

Entering an already saturated job market

A former supervisor whom I contacted for a reference prior to resuming study after a 20-year hiatus told me that I was more or less wasting my time in seeking to enter a saturated job market populated by those younger, fresher, hungrier and less shop-worn than I.

A newly qualified doctorate-holder in their 20s has, it's safe to say, enjoyed a fairly seamless career progression: BA, MA, PhD. They are straight arrows – I am an unguided missile by comparison, with a career history built upon under-performance in a range of fields.

A nagging voice that whispered "this isn't what you should be doing with your life" sabotaged any commitment to establishing a presence in the corporate world.

Of course, there are benefits to beginning a PhD in later life. Being older doesn't necessarily make you wiser, but in my case, it has made me more disciplined about the process of writing.

After graduating from university in 1994, I meandered from job to job and eventually trained as a journalist. I hated the job, but it taught me to write to strict deadlines, an attribute which has proved invaluable when juggling the demands of a full-time job and two young children.

Sleepless nights

I don't have the option of planning a day of study – I fit my studies in around my life. I typically squeeze in my doctoral work during evenings and weekends, but in fact, trying to segregate family, work and PhD time is virtually impossible – my doctoral work is always on, running as a background programme throughout the day.

I have not experienced an unbroken night's sleep for the past five years – I am invariably up in the small hours banishing ghosts, dispensing milk or searching for misplaced comforters. As I have discovered, chronic sleep deprivation makes sustained concentration a daunting task.

If you begin a PhD in your early 20s, there's a strong presumption that this represents a career choice. If you begin a doctorate in later life, this is often interpreted as a desire for intellectual stimulation, rather than an ambition to secure employment as a teacher and researcher.

Older doctoral candidates seem under-represented in the teaching and lecturing undertaken by postgraduate students. Thanks to the demands of work and family life, I don't enjoy many networking or social encounters with my peers – but I do enjoy the benefits of a stable home environment and a steady source of income. Instead, I've been able to build up a roster of contacts on Twitter and other social networking sites.

Why I want to work in academia

Why do I keep going? Because after living in the banality of the corporate world, I have a renewed respect for academia, for open-mindedness and intellectual honesty.

It's true that higher education is becoming increasingly corporate – academics are hostage to the jargon of marketers, and are being forced to demonstrate that their research has an impact beyond the scholarly community, and that their teaching embodies "employability", irrespective of its intellectual merits.

I recognise that there is a correspondent ruthlessness within academia – the demands of maintaining an impressive roster of publications, of success in securing funding, and of competing with other highly intelligent, motivated people for a dwindling pool of jobs.

But there's also the very real joy of research, of reaching the limits of your intellectual boundaries, of being invited to contend with ideas that matter. And that's why I continue along the lonely road of the PhD – I've revived a part of me that I'd lamented, thinking it gone forever. And seeing it revived – and occasionally flourishing despite all life's obstacles – is enough.

This week's anonymous academic is studying for a humanities PhD at a Russell Group university.

If you'd like to contribute an anonymous piece about the trials and tribulations of university life, contact [email protected] .

Join the higher education network for more comment, analysis and job opportunities , direct to your inbox. Follow us on Twitter @gdnhighered .

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Is it a good time to be getting a PhD? We asked those who’ve done it

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Career Sessions was sponsored by a grant from Inspiring SA ( https://inspiringsa.org.au/ ).

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The number of Australian PhD graduates reached around 10,000 a year in 2019, twice as many as in 2005. However, the number of PhDs has been exceeding the available academic positions since as early as the mid-1990s. In 2020, universities purged around 10% of their workforce due to the pandemic, and many university careers are still vulnerable .

Given these statistics, you might wonder if doing a PhD is still a good idea. Based on our discussions with PhD holders, there are still plenty of very good reasons, which is good news in 2021.

Read more: 2021 is the year Australia's international student crisis really bites

In June 2020 we interviewed 12 PhD holders from multiple disciplines for our podcast Career Sessions to investigate the question: why do a PhD?

Why do a PhD?

The PhD is a mechanism for developing high-level research skills, learning about rigours of science or the development of theory. It sets you up with project management, problem-solving and analytical skills that are meaningful within and beyond academia.

“It just taught me all those transferable skills, project management, and also now starting businesses. I’m amazed at how close starting a business is to doing a science project.” – Dr Andy Stapleton

For our interviewees, the PhD is an opportunity to dive deeply into a topic they are passionate about. They also considered contributing new knowledge to be a privilege. The process taught them to be better thinkers, critical thinkers, and to view the world through new eyes.

“The mental fitness to work at a high level, to be able to think at a high level, to be able to write it […] The topic is less important.” – Dr Gareth Furber

The PhD is a voyage of discovery to a better understanding of how things work. It gives them a credible platform from which their voice can be heard and respected, and they can contribute to change.

“I think it’s definitely like a springboard or something. It launches you into a whole other place and it gives you […] more of a voice. It’s a political act for me. It’s about making change.” – Dr Elizabeth Newnham

The PhD is a tough and sometimes painful journey, but ultimately rewarding. The extraordinary was tempered by frustration, and the experience shaped their lives, increasing self-confidence and leading to new self-awareness.

Read more: PhD completion: an evidence-based guide for students, supervisors and universities

When asked whether they would they do it again, no-one hesitated in saying “yes”.

“You will never stretch your brain in a way that a PhD forces you to.” – Professor Kate Douglas.

The PhD is not necessarily a golden ticket to an academic career, but the experience and skills you develop will be meaningful for your future.

“What I’d done in my PhD gave me a lot broader sense than just my own personal experience. There were a lot of people that have heard me speak and a lot of that’s been informed by the PhD. So it might not be direct, but it’s informed who I am.” – Dr Susan Close

Advice from our guests

Keep both your eyes and your mind open. Pick a topic you are passionate about. Speak to people both within and outside academia to find out where this could lead. Think about whether you actually need a PhD to get to where you want to be.

You’ll have to make some judgement calls about how a PhD can fit into your life.

And find the right supervisor! They are the most important relationship you will have throughout your candidature, and they are a solid reference for what comes next. Finding the right supervisor will always enhance your PhD experience .

Read more: Ten types of PhD supervisor relationships – which is yours?

A PhD isn’t right for everyone. Ask yourself, is it the right time for you and your research interests? Are you resilient? Mental health among PhD students is poor

Our podcast guests have witnessed PhD students’ struggles. The pathway of a PhD candidate is not linear. There are many ups and downs. You will meander in many unplanned directions and often take wrong turns.

When you have completed your PhD, the hard work is really just starting. It is a gateway, but there are a lot of PhDs out there. It is what comes next that really counts.

“It’s a gateway. You’re learning how to do research. But if you really want to be successful afterwards, you need to apply that, and be diligent about that as well, and have a good work ethic.” – Dr Mark Krstic

Read more: 1 in 5 PhD students could drop out. Here are some tips for how to keep going

A PhD in any field is an achievement. Even the most niche topics will contribute knowledge to a field that is important for many people. The reward is intrinsic and only you can identify how doing a PhD will contribute to your life. It gives you a great toolkit to identify the doors that are appropriate for you.

“The first paper was the most exciting thing. […] at that time I thought of papers as like a version of immortality. My name is on something that will last forever. I think this is my legacy.” – Dr Cameron Shearer

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What Is a PhD?

A PhD is often the highest possible academic degree you can get in a subject. Learn more about whether earning a PhD could benefit your career.

A Doctor of Philosophy, often known as a PhD, is a terminal degree —or the highest possible academic degree you can earn in a subject. While PhD programs (or doctorate programs) are often structured to take between four and five years , some graduate students may take longer as they balance the responsibilities of coursework, original research, and other degree requirements with raising families or working full time. 

With a PhD, you may find opportunities to work as a university professor, a researcher in a commercial or government laboratory, a consultant, or a subject matter expert (SME). If you have the intellectual curiosity and dedication, earning a PhD can be a rewarding experience. In this article, we’ll go over what it takes to earn a PhD, the requirements to apply for a PhD program, and other factors worth considering.

Learn more: What Does ‘PhD’ Stand For?

PhD: Key facts

Generally, students begin their PhD after earning a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree . However, some doctoral programs may offer you the chance to earn your master’s while pursuing your PhD, so that may not be an admissions requirement.  

What can you get a PhD in?

It’s possible to earn your PhD in a number of academic disciplines, including the natural sciences , humanities , arts, and social sciences . The 2021 Survey of Earned Doctorates, from the National Center for Science and Engineering Statistics, offers a numerical breakdown of actual degrees earned in broad academic fields [ 1 ]:

Engineering: 10,240

Biological and biomedical sciences: 8,149

Social sciences: 4,878

Physical sciences: 4,693

Psychology: 3,797

Computer and information sciences: 2,361

Health sciences: 2,331

Mathematics and statistics: 2,012

Agricultural sciences and natural resources: 1,334

Geosciences, atmospheric sciences, and ocean sciences: 1,064

Education: 4,252

Humanities and arts: 4,137

Business: 1,392

Other fields: 1,610

Depending on the university you attend, you may find that the broad academic fields above break down into more specific disciplines. For example, within a physical science department, you might get a PhD in physics or chemistry. Within an engineering department, you might get a PhD in electrical or mechanical engineering. Philosophy, theology, history, or English might fall within a humanities department, while economics or social work could fall within a social sciences department. Marketing could be a specific PhD major within a business department.

In terms of your PhD coursework and research, you will likely be expected to concentrate in some area of your larger subject. For example, PhDs in biology may focus on biochemistry or biostatistics, whereas a PhD in English may concentrate on twentieth-century American literature. 

Requirements to get a PhD

PhD programs typically require at least two years of advanced coursework, as well as comprehensive exams, and the successful completion of a dissertation. Let’s break that down on a year-by-year basis: 

Years 1 and 2: Take classes to develop advanced knowledge in your subject area. 

Year 3: Study for and successfully pass your comprehensive exams. 

Years 4 and 5: Research, write, and defend your dissertation. 

Once you have successfully passed your comprehensive exams, you’re typically considered “All But Dissertation” or ABD, which signals that you’ve finished everything in your doctoral program except your dissertation. 

Research supervisor 

PhD students often choose a faculty member who specializes in their area of interest to serve as the research supervisor. It can help to identify professors or programs that will support your research endeavors before applying, so you can establish a relationship with your potential research advisor early. 

The average cost of a PhD program in the US is $106,860, though that figure can differ based on the type of institution you attend and what you study [ 2 ].

Reasons to get a PhD

Earning your PhD can be an immensely rewarding experience, but the degree can be a big commitment, requiring significant time, money, and work. 

Here are some more reasons you may want to pursue a PhD:

Become a subject matter expert in a particular field.

Conduct the research you are passionate about.

Develop transferable skills that can help in your professional life. 

Make a difference in the world with new research.

Make connections with scholars in your academic community.

Open up career avenues in academic and research work.

Completing a PhD can reveal to employers that you possess a wide range of competencies that are valued in both academic and non-academic settings. 

PhD salaries

PhD holders earn a median weekly income of $1,909 compared to master’s degree holders, who earn a median weekly income of $1,574, according to the US Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) [ 3 ]. They may also experience lower percentages of unemployment. The unemployment rate for PhD graduates is 1.5 percent compared to master’s degree holders at 2.6 percent [ 3 ].

Requirements to apply to a PhD program

PhD programs expect you to meet several requirements before enrolling. Here are some examples of common requirements:

Have an undergraduate degree, usually with at least a 3.0 overall GPA.

Have a master's degree, though some programs may not require it.

Take the Graduate Record Examination (GRE) and achieve a minimum score.

Submit a sample of your academic writing.

Submit your CV .

Provide letters of recommendation , which should ideally come from academic faculty members who can speak to your research or intellectual abilities.

Requirements differ by program and school, so take time to become familiar with the entry requirements of universities where you’re interested in applying. Admissions staff or departmental staff should be able to give you specific information about their admissions requirements.

If a program is interested in you, based on your application, you may have to complete an interview. The university representatives that interview you will look at your motivation, how prepared you are, and how suitable you are for acceptance into the doctoral degree program.

PhD vs. other terminal degrees

Terminal degrees are the highest degree available in a field of study. While the PhD is the highest academic degree you can earn in a field of study, a Juris Doctor (JD) is the highest degree you can earn in law, and a professional degree , such as a Doctor of Medicine (MD) or a Doctor of Veterinary Medicine (DVM) , is the highest degree you can earn in these medical professions. 

Learn more: What is a Terminal Degree and Do You Need One?   

Professional doctorates are a different category of doctorate degree. They are usually intended for professionals already working in a field who want to pursue advanced training in their area. The main difference between a professional doctorate and an academic doctorate has to do with subject matter and research. While PhDs are interested in conducting new research, professional degree students take existing models and knowledge and apply them to solve problems. Professional doctorates are also designed to prepare learners for careers in a certain industry rather than academia.  

Examples of professional doctorates include:

DBA (Doctor of Business Administration)

DNP (Doctor of Nursing Practice)

EdD (Doctor of Education)

DPH (Doctor of Public Health)

Is someone with a PhD a doctor?

You can use the salutation "Dr" to address people who hold doctorates, including PhDs and other professional degrees. The word "doctor" comes from the Latin word for "teacher," and PhDs are often professors at universities. While it has become more common to refer to medical doctors as “Dr,” some professors use the honorific when addressing students and in professional settings.

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Learning online can be a great way to explore a field you're interested in, discover career paths , and even decide whether a PhD is for you. Consider one of Coursera's Professional Certificates , available from Google, Meta, IBM, Salesforce, and other industry leaders, and gain job-ready skills that employers are looking for.

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Article sources

NCSES. " 2021 Survey of Earned Doctorates , https://ncses.nsf.gov/pubs/nsf23300/report/field-of-doctorate." Accessed August 1, 2023.

Education Data Initiative. “Average Cost of a Doctorate Degree ,     https://educationdata.org/average-cost-of-a-doctorate-degree.” Accessed August 1, 2023.

US Bureau of Labor Statistics. “Earnings and Unemployment rates by educational attainment, 2021 , https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm." Accessed August 1, 2023.

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10 Time Management Tips for Older PhD Students Who Want to Balance Work and Studies

Breaking barriers: empowering black women over 40 to excel in information systems phd programs. , the top 8 must-know tips for phd preparation: how to get started.

3 Reasons Pursuing a PhD in Your 40s and 50s is a Good Idea

Pursuing a PhD – A doctor of Philosophy – is a terminal degree, which means it is the highest level of education one can attain in a field.

According to researchers, the demographic shift from younger to older college graduates has been underway since the early 90s. This shift has also affected the age at which people graduate from master’s and doctorate degree programs (Brazziel, 1992). In other words, starting a Ph.D. education at a mature age may become the norm instead of an exception.

Several studies have looked at how mature-age students start and complete their doctoral studies (Templeton, 2021). Others have also chronicled women of color who started their doctorate degrees after 50 (Wilson et al., 2020). It’s noteworthy that mature-age students are classified as 35 and above (Templeton, 2021). Indeed, it looks like seeking a Ph.D. after 40 years old is not uncommon.

Including your own personal motivations for pursuing a PhD , here are a few more reasons starting a Ph.D. in your 40s and 50s may be a better time to do it.

Reasons for Pursuing a PhD:

#1: experience:.

In your 40s and above, you have acquired some experiences in both life and work. Your years of lived experience give you a certain perspective of who you are and aren’t. You’ve probably been there and done a lot of that. Your work experience also gives you a particular perspective on work ethics, relationships, and hard work.

All of these come in handy when working on your Ph.D. How? You’re generally better able to read people, which helps when building relationships or choosing a Ph.D. supervisor. Your work experience also helps in managing time and projects. You are more able to read and synthesize information. You are also more able to see connections between your field of study and applications of the phenomenon in real life. Your experience might also help you articulate your ideas and write more clearly.

#2: Meaningfulness of life:

At a more mature age, one may be looking for more meaning in life. In this case, gaining more knowledge in an aspect of life, work, and business through Pursuing a PhD could help you make more sense of the phenomena in life, work, and business.

Indeed researchers argue that mature-age students seek a Ph.D. not necessarily for career advancement but for reflection(cite). In your 20s and early 30s, seeking meaningfulness may not be at the forefront of one’s mind. However, as you mature, you may begin to field questions about how you want to spend the rest of your life or retire.

These questions shift to the foreground. Gaining a Ph.D. allows one to reflect and answer some of those questions. It also paves the way for teaching, a sure way of giving to others. Teaching also lets others benefit from your knowledge and research. This is perhaps one of the reasons research and teaching are intricately intertwined.

#3: Career Decline is Unavoidable:

There is no place where career decline is more evident than in professional sports. We see this in athletes who retire as they near 35 years. It’s not as evident in other careers, probably because there are fewer requirements for physical prowess.

However, career decline can be found in many other careers. When it happens, an excellent way to channel our experience and expertise is to help others, write, and teach others what we know. Hence, pursuing a PhD is one avenue for you to hone your skills. According to Authur Brooks , career decline comes sooner than we think. So, instead of fighting it, one should move from being an innovator or a creative to teaching others what we’ve learned and how to do it.

In conclusion, your being in your 40s or 50s should not stop you from pursuing a PhD goal. On the contrary, based on some of the above reasons, a mature age seems to be a great time to start your Ph.D.

What’s your story?

• Brazziel, W. F. (1992). Older students and doctorate production.  The Review of Higher Education ,  15 (4), 449-462.
• Templeton, R. (2021). Factors likely to sustain a mature-age student to completion of their doctorate.  Australian Journal of Adult Learning ,  61 (1), 45-62.
• Wilson, D. B., Darrell, L., & Rhodes, D. J. (2020). Autumn Divas: Women of Color Who Achieved Doctorate Degrees After Age 50.  Urban Social Work .

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What Is The Age Limit for A PhD?

• By Dr Harry Hothi
• August 17, 2020

Introduction

I have seen and personally worked with PhD candidates of all ages, some older than me, some younger. In all my time within academia, I haven’t come across any university that places a limit on the age of an individual that wants to apply for and pursue a full time doctoral degree; indeed the practice of doing so would be rightly considered a form of discrimination at most academic institutions and even against the law in some countries.

However, a quick search on Google is enough to see that the question about age limits for doing a PhD is something that is asked quite often. This leads me to believe that there are many very capable potential doctoral candidates in the world that haven’t pursued their dreams of academic research almost entirely because they believe that they’re too old to do so.

There is No Age Limit for Doing a PhD

Simply put there is no age limit for someone considering doing a PhD. Indeed, on the opposite end of the scale, even the definition of a minimum’ age at which someone can start a PhD is not really well defined.

One of the youngest PhD graduates in recent times is thought to be Kim Ung-Yong who is a South Korean professor who purportedly earned a PhD in civil engineering at the age of 15 [1]. For the vast majority however, the practical considerations of progressing through the different stages of education (i.e. high school, undergraduate degree, a Master’s degree, etc.) mean that most won’t start their PhD projects until they’re at least in their early to mid 20’s; in the UK, for example, the average age for a PhD graduate is between 26 and 27 years old [2].

Meanwhile, the oldest person to be awarded a PhD degree in the United Kingdom is thought to be 95 year old Charles Betty, who gained his doctorate from the University of Northampton in 2018 after completing his 48,000 word thesis on why elderly expats living in Spain decide to return to the UK’ [3].

What does the data say?

According to data published by the National Science Foundation (NSF), a total of 54,904 people earned PhDs at universities in the United States of America in 2016; 46% of all new doctorates were women and 31% were international candidates [4].

Looking at the age distributions available for 51,621 of these new PhD graduates in 2016, 44% (n=22,863) were aged 30 or below, 43% (n=22,038) were aged between 31 and 40 and 13% (n=6,720) were over the age of 40 when they were awarded their doctoral degree. In this same year, over 50% of PhD students in subjects related to physical sciences, earth sciences, life sciences, mathematics, computer sciences and engineering were below the age of 31, whilst less than 10% of these STEM graduates were older than 41.

Conversely, 61% of PhDs in humanities and arts and 52% in other non-engineering and science disciplines gained their doctorates between 31 and 40 years of age. Interestingly, the analysis by the NSF found that 94% of doctoral candidates aged below 31 supported their research financially through research or teaching assistantships, grants or fellowships. Only 36% of PhDs aged over 41 at graduation reported receiving similar types of financial support; approximately 50% of this age group were found to have self-funded their studies.

The reasons for fewer doctoral candidates aged over 41 receiving external funding to support their time as research students is not clear. On the face of it, the data may appear to suggest a bias towards funding younger students which unfortunately may be the case in some instances. In Germany, for example, the German Federal Training Assistance Act (BAfG) provides funding support for higher education but places a limit of 30 years for undergraduate degrees and 35 years for postgraduate students at graduate school. However, another explanation, at least in some cases, may be that non-STEM related subjects are less likely to be associated with specific project funding and NSF analysis suggests PhDs in these subjects are more often undertaken by older doctoral candidates.

What are the Advantages and Disadvantages?

No one should be discouraged from pursuing a PhD program or entering into higher education based on how old they are and indeed there are several (albeit subjective) benefits and disadvantages of doing a PhD in your younger’ or older’ years.

A perceived advantage may be that gaining a PhD in your 20’s can potentially give you more time to develop your career. Younger doctoral students could earn their PhD and enter into academic jobs before starting a family (although many people successfully carry out doctoral research whilst also looking after young children). You could even afford yourself the time and flexibility to implement a career change further down the line if you so wanted.

Conversely, entering a graduate school and becoming a PhD student in later years means that you’ll be doing so having gained a lot more life experience and for some STEM research projects in particular, having work experience in industry can be invaluable. As an older PhD candidate you’re likely to be better equipped to work independently and the relationships / connections you’ll have built over time may be a useful factor in helping you progress faster. I’ve met several older students at university who had the opportunity to undertake PhD research years ago but have no regrets in having waited and started the adventure in later years.

Finding a PhD has never been this easy – search for a PhD by keyword, location or academic area of interest.

It’s inevitable that the question of age limits for pursing a PhD is going to invite some controversial opinions from some people; this unfortunately may always be the case when talking about differing social and demographic factors.

There’s no doubt however that PhD programs can help career advancement or a career change regardless of age however there’s also nothing to stop you from becoming a graduate student just for the academic pursuit!

The answer here is very simple: there is no age limit for doing a PhD.

[1] http://scienceandnaturea.blogspot.com

[2] https://www.eui.eu/

[3] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/

[4] https://ncses.nsf.gov/

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Aren't you too old for that? The late life plunge into a PhD

More students are taking up a phd later in life — even with no intention of finding work in their field.

Social Sharing

Originally published on October 14, 2018.

When Val Napoleon returned to university to study law, she was one of only two grandparents in her program.

After earning a law degree in her early 40s, she went on to pursue a PhD. She defended her dissertation in 2009 at the age of 53. 

Today, Napoleon is a celebrated Indigenous scholar and a law professor at the University of Victoria.

She's also the director of a new Indigenous law degree program,  which the university describes as the world's first .

For her, graduate school was "a type of driver's licence," she told The Sunday Edition .

"It was a way for me to get to places that I wouldn't otherwise have an opportunity to get into."

Doctoral programs are evolving to address "the changing workplace… job redundancies owing to automation and people needing to upskill later in life," said Matthew McKean, associate director of education at the Conference Board of Canada.

Data from Statistics Canada shows that in 1992, 471 students over the age of 50 enrolled in full-time PhDs. By 2015, that grew to some 2,430, which reflects a "lifelong learning" narrative emerging within post-secondary education in Canada, McKean said.

Making up for lost time

For Lisa Armstrong, taking up a PhD was an opportunity to make up for lost time.

After a troubled relationship with high school, Armstrong turned to bartending and exotic dancing to support her two children as a single mother.

But when her oldest son went off to university, it sparked a desire to learn again.

"I was so excited for him and I really wanted some of that myself," she said. "I was really mourning for the opportunities I felt that I had missed out on when I was younger."

So she enrolled in an undergraduate program, even sharing classes with some of her son's friends.

Now, at the age of 44, she's a PhD student in applied linguistics at Carleton University, researching sexual harassment in the hospitality industry.

Armstrong says she has her sights set on an academic job after she completes her degree, but notes she's faced pushback for her aspirations. She recalled being told by a professor that she was "kind of too old" and didn't have "enough work years left" to secure an academic job.

"I didn't take very kindly to that," Armstrong said. But she remained undeterred.

"For me it always seemed intuitively that it would be worth doing."

Learning for the sake of learning​

But not all older students see PhDs as a pathway to a career.

"[People my age] are doing it out of love of learning... There was never any question for me that I was somehow embarking on a new career," said Brian Pollick, who is completing a PhD in 14th century Italian art history at the University of Victoria.

Before he retired, the 72-year-old worked in the justice field, including as the executive director of the John Howard Society of Alberta.

Pollick says his inspiration for doing a PhD came "like an epiphany" during a post-retirement trip to Italy with his wife, when they saw an exhibit featuring the works of Pompeo Batoni, a mid-18th century painter.

"Somehow, I just knew within moments of being in that exhibition that what I wanted to do was art history."

'I've always wanted to be in the class'

Pollick sees many advantages to pursuing a PhD at his stage in life with no career ambitions in mind.

For younger students who are hoping to find academic work with their degrees, the PhD comes with a great deal of intensity and anxiety, he says.

"What's not there [for me] is the sense that I've got to do this because the rest of my life depends on it. And that's a huge difference, in that it takes away so much of the pressure."

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McKean admits that most conversations in post-secondary education haven't caught up to this demographic.

"Universities are ideally spaces for learning for learning's sake," he said. "But the need for employability and job readiness has become much more urgent than it was in the past."

Victor Malins agrees. At 63 years old, he is a first-year PhD student in British history at York University.

When he's not reading history books, Malins is out on his truck, delivering snack cakes as an independent distributor for Vachon Bakery.

"I always sit in the class … and I think to myself, 'how many of these people actually want to be here?'" 

"I want to be here," Malins added, noting that many younger students are in class because they feel they have to be.

"They're after the piece of paper at the end and they don't care… I've never had that. I've always wanted to be in the class."

Pollick, the art historian, feels the same way.

"I still love my topic. I'm still excited by it. I haven't for a moment said, 'Ah, why did I do this?'" 

As for his advice to others who might be considering a PhD later in life?

"It's a pretty intense journey but it can just be so satisfying," he said. "If you want to do it, do it. And do it joyfully."

To hear more about these students' stories, click 'listen' above for the full documentary. 

Written and produced by Donya Ziaee.

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• FULL EPISODE: The Sunday Edition — October 14, 2018

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Getting a PhD in Your 50s and 60s: The Ultimate Guide

There’s a significant rise in the number of mature students returning to university to complete postgraduate degrees. You plan to be one of them. But you find yourself asking if it is feasible to start getting a PhD in your 50s and 60s. 

It’s never too late getting a PhD in your 50s and 60s because there’s no age limit in the pursuit of higher education. To give you a head start on this exciting new endeavor, we present to you the ultimate guide to getting a PhD in your prime years.

It is critical to know what to expect, such as the challenges and benefits of reviving an academic existence as a mid- or late-career student, so you can plan for the years ahead. Read on to find out how.

Why You Should Pursue a PhD at a Later Stage in Life

Why would anyone in their right mind regurgitate a period of woe and misery in their golden years when they should already be relaxing? Well, many people, not just nerds, love studying. 

There’s an entire population dedicated to life-long learning. They form the bulk of those going back to school to complete degrees that were halted mid-life due to the untimely arrival of kids, financial downfall, death in the family, or other unfortunate circumstances. These mature students don’t need a reason to return to school. Their passion drives them.

For others, the purpose is economical. Those in the middle of their career embark on a PhD to change its direction, improve their prospects, upgrade their qualification set, or to accrue further knowledge. In fields like teaching and research, a doctorate is a veritable advantage.

Nina Grunfeld , founder of Life Clubs , a network that helps people achieve life changes, explains that many, particularly women, want to return to study because they’re disgruntled or have a desire to improve themselves, revive their career, or discover new passions.

“A milestone age is often a trigger,” Grunfeld adds.

“At the Open University , favored by many part-time learners, numbers of postgraduate students over the age of 45 have been increasing steadily for the past three years, with the greatest rise (32%) in students over 65.”

Others undertake a PhD to crown a significant achievement or just to prove they can do it. This writer’s friend did it to slap her diploma in the face of her wealthy future sister-in-law, who denigrated her economic status. Education, after all, is one of the world’s greatest equalizers. 

Most crave a PhD for the prestige the three letters can add to their names. If, however, you have a natural yearning for knowledge and in-depth study of a subject you’re passionate about, the heck with your age. Go for it!

Reasons Not to Get a PhD

Thoroughly assess your reasons for pursuing a PhD, because although it’s fulfilling academically, it’s also a huge financial commitment. If you’re dissatisfied with your current job, or you think it would just be fun to be a student again, neither will give you the strength to withstand the rigors of extreme study.

On the other hand, if you’re sure that gaining this qualification will fit in with your life goals, then forge ahead!

The Benefits of Pursuing a PhD

Do you want a research doctorate, or do you want to teach? Both are the standard reasons for undertaking PhD studies. Once completed, a PhD will make you an expert in your chosen field, possibly even beyond borders!

Apart from aspects previously mentioned, especially beneficial for older people is the fact that learning builds new neural connections that improve cognitive ability, memory function, and problem-solving ability. Education is also good for boosting one’s spirit. Classroom or online learning is a social endeavor that breaks isolation and fosters social connections. 

According to the American Council on Education , social connection with teachers and peers is one of the reasons mature students over 50 pursue higher learning.

There are retirement communities (some located on campus) that partner with colleges and universities to offer residents post-secondary courses. Most of these are on the East Coast, but there are a couple in California and Florida.

Political scientist Chris Blattman explains how a PhD intangibly molds an individual: “A PhD program doesn’t just teach you, it socializes you. It gradually changes what you think is interesting and important, the peer group you compare yourself to, the value you place on leisure and family over career, and the kind of life you will value when you emerge.”

How Long Does It Take to Complete a PhD Program?

Most full-time students can complete theirs in five to six years. Part-timers can take as long as eight to 10 years. Students with a master’s degree complete their PhD in four or five years.

Some programs, like the MACRM (Master of Arts in Public Policy with Certificate in Research Methods) at the University of Chicago’s Harris Public Policy , offer a combination of methods. This master’s program provides intense and applied research training plus the option of a PhD at the end.

Study Methods

Studying for a PhD here is different compared to Europe. Our students are usually in direct contact with their professors. They’re expected to do a lot of teaching and marking, which encroaches on their free time off-campus. The earlier you accept this, the better you’ll cope and adopt solutions.

According to the World Economic Forum , the USA had the most doctoral graduates in 2017: 71,000. Germany and the UK followed, with 28,000 each.

In 2016, about 14% of all doctoral recipients were over age 40, per the National Science Foundation . Educators see increasing enrollment in doctoral programs by students in their 40s and 50s.

At Cornell University , women drive the trend . “The number of new female doctoral students age 36 or older was 44% higher in 2015 than in 2009,” says Barbara Knuth , senior vice provost and dean of the graduate school.

What Are the Requirements?

Generally, a PhD applicant should have completed a relevant undergraduate degree. Ideally, he should have also secured a master’s degree (with substantial research) in a related subject. Thankfully, this is optional here. Most PhD programs in the US, unlike in the UK, don’t require a master’s degree for admission. Students can move straight to doing a PhD with an undergraduate degree.

Here’s a sample of PhD requirements from the University of California, Berkeley , a public research university regarded as one of our most prestigious. This is a list of their graduate programs and application deadlines. We chose Berkeley as an example, because it had the highest number of top-ranked doctoral programs nationwide, according to a National Research Council report .

Required documentation includes, but isn’t limited to official transcripts, course descriptions from previous institutions attended, proof of language proficiency, references, and cover letters.

How to Apply

For admission to your chosen institution, visit its website. Check its rankings, course listings, faculty, and requirements specific to your field of study. Talk to other students and professors, learn about your desired department, and uncover the social scene.

Deadlines for applications to PhD programs are usually between December and February. You’ll get an answer by April. Most institutions recommend that you apply way in advance to give both parties plenty of time for arrangements. They require international students to have a TOEFL score of around 90, but this varies depending on the institution.

In Europe, students choose their PhD subject area before they apply. Here, potential PhD students can take up to a year or two deciding on their research subject while attending classes at a graduate level. Students normally apply to more than one institution—and separately because there’s no central organization that processes applications.

Students in Europe are expected to apply with existing knowledge of the subject via a master’s degree. They begin PhD studies right away. Here, universities accept that students don’t have an in-depth understanding of their subject and permit them to decide later.

Tips to Get a (Slight) Advantage

Get the best quality general research pre-training possible. Apply to as many top schools as you can. Visit all the institutions that accepted you. Narrow down your choices according to fit and quality.

Applying to many places is crucial because the admissions process is competitive and random. Whittling 100 promising candidates down to 30 is subjective. Even outstanding candidates might not be admitted.

Institutions are more likely to admit you if you demonstrate a good fit with their faculty. That’s why you have to research the faculty and their work, and explain how you fit in. Mention in your cover letter the staff members you see as complementary to your research. Note that deciding committees in politics programs take cover letters more seriously than their counterparts in economics.

Strive to gain entry into one of the top 10 schools in your field because it gives you a better chance at an academic job. This is true in economics, the most hierarchical field in social science.

Which University Should You Attend?

Rankings shouldn’t be the main deciding factor, but they’re an excellent indicator of educational expertise. To choose the best from the 4,000 nationwide, see this list of our best universities in 2020 and how they feature in worldwide rankings. The top five are Stanford University, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, California Institute of Technology, Harvard University, and Princeton.

How to Choose the Right Institution

Consider these factors.

Your field of study, their programs, specialties, facilities, and faculty rating. Your choice depends on your preferred career and the course credit you’ve accumulated. 

If you’re certain about your field of interest and feel confident it will sustain you for the entire program, you’ll have a greater chance of getting accepted.

Researching their specialties will tell you if they’re appropriate for your area of study. See what areas they’ve worked in, their study focus, what they’ve published, and how well their work has been received. Also, investigate the quality of their student-faculty, as a postgrad study is collaborative and intense. You need to have the right people in your group.

What is the university best known for? Choose one renowned in the field you’re interested in to ensure you have the appropriate experts on hand to help you. Evaluate the kinds of research projects done in the university.

Choosing a venue depends on your circumstances. Staying near your home allows you to work part-time while studying. Most PhDs require only occasional visits to the university, so you may opt to take the course far from home, then travel when necessary. Alternatively, you could move closer to your university for greater immersion into the social scene and a closer connection to the student community.

If you choose to study away from home, contact your chosen university’s accommodation office first. Many university towns have student accommodation in place, but spots tend to go quickly, so apply early. Next, research on- and off-campus accommodation. Check online local listings and bulletin boards for private rentals.

Social Life

Check out student life on social media. What organizations do they have? Are they the sort you would want to join?

Staff/Student Ratio

The more staff available to each student, the better.

Choose From These Categories of Institutions

• Public Universities (aka state colleges)—open to anyone who qualifies. They’re funded by state governments. Being larger, they can accommodate many students and offer a wide variety of degree programs. Some offer scholarships.
• Private Non-Profit Colleges —their tuition is much higher than that of state universities or community colleges, but they don’t profit from it. As they’re smaller, they offer specific courses and specialized degrees. They receive funds only from tuition fees and donations.
• Private For-Profit Colleges —similar to non-profits in course study and general cost, but they’re set up as a business. This affects the type of degree programs offered.
• Liberal Arts Colleges —offer one expansive area of study rather than specific degree tracks. As they’re smaller, instructors give you more attention. Though most focus on undergraduate education, some offer good postgraduate degree programs too. Campus culture is quite different from that of a traditional university.
• Online Postgraduate Colleges —perfect for those juggling jobs and family as it offers flexibility in assignment completion. Most coursework and classroom discussions are held online, but you may have to go to a physical classroom part of the time, especially as you get closer to graduation. An online degree is as valuable as one you physically attend.

Ask Your Intended University These Questions

• What are my chances of finding a job after graduation? See the career prospects below.
• How flexible is your program? This depends on the subject area. The Humanities and the Arts offer a greater degree of flexibility than science-oriented ones. North American institutions offer slightly less flexibility than their European counterparts. See whether you can pick and choose components, or if the whole program is indelibly fixed from beginning to end.
• What research resources are available? Decent computer networks and an equipped library are not enough. Serious research requires office-based administration support, reprographic services, and essentials of a proper business center. Disregard any institution that lacks support.
• How versatile is your department? Some departments prefer one research method. Others favor newer ones, non-traditional teaching styles, or a radical approach. Extensive departments offer a wider spectrum of methods and potential areas of study. You may thrive better with a broader tradition of research methodologies or value the security of knowing what is expected of you.
• What are your non-academic amenities? Also, check out other facilities, like leisure programs, for maintaining a work/life balance. Small universities in remote towns offer lesser cultural or social options.

How to Get Into a Top Institution

Entry into the top 10 or 15 schools is extremely competitive. Focus on getting exceptional recommendations, experience, grades, and GRE scores. Most departments appoint a small committee of four to six faculty members for admissions. The committee changes every year, so results are hard to predict.

Work on research projects with professors. Try before you commit. Become a research assistant (RA) in your department or secure RA jobs with professors in top departments in your area. This will help with references and your statement.

How to Fund Your Studies

The cost of traditional programs can vary between $20,000 to $60,000 per year. Shorter programs are cheaper. If a PhD is going to drown you in debt, think twice. Attend an institution with full funding if you can. This is often a barter deal: free tuition in exchange for research and teaching.

Another reason for applying in advance is to give plenty of time to arrange funding. Deadlines for application for funding can be as early as December for studies beginning in the fall. Many students can get part or full funding through scholarships, fellowships, bursaries, loans, and government assistance. Help is also available for parents, such as childcare subsidies, single-parent grants, bursaries, and free school meals for children.

Some PhD students will receive a university stipend with an assistantship position, but this varies between institutions and between departments within institutions. This is an example from Cornell University . Many government schemes like The Fulbright Program offer scholarships.

You can also obtain bursaries from abroad. An example is the Postgrad Solutions Study Bursaries in the UK, open to all nationalities. In Canada, senior citizens can have their tuition waived for one undergraduate and graduate degree.

What to Do After Admission

Once you’ve secured funding and accommodation, these are the next steps:

Find a Supervisor

Write your research proposal if you’re self-proposing your PhD. Then find an institution and a supervising academic to support you during your research. Choose those with whom you’ll work well. To achieve this, you must network and meet people in your field of research.

Apply for an Assistantship

Doctorate assistantships are advertised on university websites and wherever academic jobs are advertised. Applications for these are very competitive, so apply for several.

Clarify Duties in Your Department

While researching and writing, many PhD students take on additional responsibilities, such as helping professors and lecturers with their classes or marking and evaluating undergraduate work. These extra tasks may be paid or not.

Prepare for Your Dissertation Early

A dissertation is a means to contribute new knowledge, theories, or practices to your field. Introduce an entirely new concept, develop it, and defend its worth. Your dissertation should be around 70,000 to 100,000 words.

Your subject area will determine if you have to write your dissertation while attending classes or do so after research completion. Regardless, preps always help at crunch time.

You are expected to defend your dissertation with a public presentation. Afterward, you will have a private session with the dissertation committee to evaluate if you’ve earned your doctorate. This is why it’s important to have a positive relationship with faculty, peers, and supervisors.

Career Prospects 

What type of job can you expect after graduation?

Traditionally, graduate school hones students to become future scholars and live an intellectual life, produce innovative research, and become professors at four-year institutions. Fulfilling research careers are plentiful, but there are other ways PhD recipients can use their degrees to benefit society. For instance, they can pursue alternative academic careers in K-12 administration or the nonprofit sector.

The top 10 to 20 schools staff the top 100 to 200 universities. So PhDs outside the top 30 schools are unlikely to lead to careers in research universities, though this varies by discipline. Graduates of lower-ranked programs can work for the government or at teaching universities, international institutions, and think tanks. Job satisfaction rates are usually high.

If you aim to teach in a business department in a community college or a four-year school, an MBA may be enough. You need a doctorate, however, for a full-time job at a four-year teaching-focused school. Community colleges may hire you full-time with just a master’s, but you’ll be competing against those with doctorates.

Jobs should properly compensate you for the time spent completing your PhD. Ask your targeted institutions what the employment rate is for their graduates and their links to prospective employers. Institutions with strong ties to private companies offer more chances of future employment.

Ultimately, it boils down to your chosen subject matter. Some PhD courses like law will definitely enhance your career. Non-vocational fields like Greek mythology, however, are less likely to improve your future earning capacity or alter your career trajectory. Intellectually, of course, the reward is priceless.

Advantages of Being an Older Student

The obvious one is that your decision to return to university is likely the result of planning over several years, not a rushed, uneducated hack at the dartboard. This gives you ample time to choose your field of study.

Your work experience, professionalism, people skills, and ability to manage multiple commitments will prove invaluable throughout your studies. Course tutors also treat older students differently than their younger, undergraduate counterparts—in a good way.

Keeping Up With the Young Ones

Despite there being no age barriers in a PhD entry, age makes a difference somewhat on campus. The gap in the life experience of a young adult and a mature student is vast. The ramifications for the latter have to do with social life, interactions during class discussions and group projects, and how older students are treated by professors and non-academic staff.

For an Equal Footing…

Join organizations, societies, and sports clubs. These aren’t exclusive to undergraduate students. Not all activities are drunken, drug-crazed meet-ups. Being a part of a campus association could benefit your career development in the way of learning a unique skill or developing a new interest.

Maintaining a Balance

Many mature students return to school juggling study with family and work commitments. This makes prioritizing studies challenging. Some, especially working moms, feel guilty about not giving everyone equal attention. So they study part-time or employ creative means to manage their time.

Avenues of Support

As a mature student, you may wonder how you’ll cope with the demands of scholastic life as you’ve been out of academia for many years and can’t remember the last time you wrote an essay.

Fear not. Most universities run workshops on topics like researching, essay writing, referencing, and library use—usually at the start of the academic year. Approach your university for help with matters off-limits to family and friends. Ask your tutor for advice. Your cohort group is also a source of support and shared experiences.

The Value of Networking 

Although a PhD elevates academic achievement, it doesn’t guarantee employment in your field. Networking adds value to your career and provides growth opportunities. Relationships ease career transitions needed to pursue better opportunities. Give back by sharing your connections and expertise.

Ageism and Sexism in Academia

US universities may not be perfect, but education-related discrimination is minimal compared to many countries. Be thankful for this, and take advantage of the privilege. To illustrate what women PhD applicants have to deal with in other countries, in China , you cannot apply for a PhD after age 40.

In the Philippines, admissions departments ask invasive questions and request antiquated requirements, such as copies of marriage certificates. These are requested from both foreign and local applicants but ONLY WOMEN. You may think this requirement is from a patriarchal provincial college, but it’s an item from actual requirement lists from two of the country’s Ivy League universities, which are supposed to be progressive.

The pursuit of a PhD is a life-changer. We trust the pathways we presented will help you make the right choice based on your needs and preferred course of study. Good luck with your aspirations in higher education, which will hopefully lead to your dream career. The fulfillment will surely be unparalleled. 

A Scottish student in her 50s encapsulates the postgraduate sentiment impeccably: “There is value to being an older PhD student, and there is value to universities having us. There just needs to be more of us.”

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Hey there, my name is Anja, I’ve seen and supported my mom’s incredible transformation in her fifties. Seeing how my mom “awakened” and took full control over her life really impressed me. I got inspired and started dreaming about how we could inspire more people, especially women, to open up and create a second life for themselves. That’s how the idea of aginggreatly.com came to life…

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Getting Your Ph.D. in Retirement

Lessons from planning for retirement.

Posted September 24, 2014

I have trained several hundred people in the past few years in the work of retirement planning.

Many have been very ready to move ahead and enjoy or endure their last months of work. They were ready to plunge into this less- career -identified space we still most often call retirement. Others were somewhat ready and knew they had work to do unless they wanted to be totally surprised by leaving their career. And still others were woefully unprepared, and did not even know they were.

First my own story of retirement. I am 65. I built a business with my wife Patti for 30 plus years now, and it still operates as a coaching and leadership development business. We moved it some years ago to Columbus so we could be around more family. I have two sons here in Ohio and four grandkids. We are fortunate. We love our work as executive and life transition coaches still, and it is portable, as we can travel and get clients in Columbus too, and do much of our work by phone or video now. But we don’t work as hard as we used to by design. We had employees and an office for 25 years and let all that go, to work out of our homes.

So how did I handle turning 60? I kept (we kept) the business, the parts we wanted to keep. I went back to school for a certificate in psychology and got a masters degree instead because it was so interesting. (My other Masters is from Xavier in Cincinnati 44 years ago—sheesh!) And we moved 700 hundred miles from our home of 30 years, Kansas City, down-sizing in the process. It has been a lot of letting go and a lot of taking on new things. Even though I teach how to make transitions, I would say I was moderately prepared for the changes. Some were bigger/tougher than I thought they would be.

So do I have any advice after taking this trip of life-change/quasi-retirement of the last several years?

Here are a few things I have learned and that I see in others as we plan for and make this transition:

• Experiment: try a lot of things to see if they fit your new stage in life. I imagine you can experiment too much but I see the other problem more. We are too narrow in their ideas of what might work and report that they did not think broadly enough. Small experiments have less risk. Rent the apartment in Tuscany or Memphis before you buy. In my case I started with a certificate, but ended up getting a degree.
• Expect Inner Gains: The good news of aging is that we gain more access to our inner life if we pay attention to it. We get more spiritual by design, it seems, as our body and its power starts to wane and change. This may mean church but it may not. It may mean nature, or service, or simply drinking in daily joys on a walk, in a conversation, or a favorite TV experience (WOSU of course).
• Expect Losses and Do Some Good Grieving: Not having staff, or seeing your buddies at work every day can be a real loss. You may lose a good friend. The kids may leave town. Your energy won’t be what it was. And status may be a loss too. Give yourself time to get used to what goes away. They most likely are not coming back and other things, slowly fill in the empty spaces again, in unexpected often richer ways.
• Take your Time and Hurry Up Too: this is a big paradox of course. Time is a wasting and you know you have less time on the planet by a lot than what you have already lived. So move on with some boldness. That said, there is no hurry either. Each day is a new day to enjoy and breathe into without as many deadlines.
• Work as Hard as You Want: you may want to work a little or a lot, or go in spurts, which is common. It may be time to try new ideas for work, and this may pull you into more work than you imagined. When you see your financial realities, work may still be needed, so good luck on the financial front (and see an advisor of course), and be realistic.
• Play and Savor: many of us know how to play well already, but some need to learn new ways to play at this stage. The sore back may inhibit the golf game, or your euchre partners may have moved to California. And you may have been all about the work. This age can be a great time for creativity and play. Play can be serving on boards, at the block party, or even in the new part-time job. Savor it all: the work, the play, the day, as much as you can. Goals are good, savoring the moment, with or without them, just as much so.

Get your Ph.D. in retirement and semi-retirement, one of the things aging people do. Learn what you want and like, factor in the responsibilities and duties that still are there, often big ones. Make it happen and let it happen too. You have some control, but not total. Keep on learning, or as the Grateful Dead might have put it, keep on truckin’.

John Schuster is the author of The Power of Your Past .

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Where To Earn An Online Ph.D. In Marketing In 2024

Published: Apr 17, 2024, 9:52am

Marketing careers offer diverse and exciting opportunities for those with a knack for creativity, strategic thinking and data analysis who want to make impactful contributions to businesses and brands.

A Ph.D. in marketing is the most advanced degree you can earn in the field. It can help you advance your career as a marketing executive or prepare you for an academic or research-based position.

Several institutions offer Ph.D. in marketing online programs designed for working professionals. These programs delve into essential areas such as consumer behavior, market research methodologies, strategic marketing planning and emerging digital marketing strategies.

This guide provides an overview of the two online Ph.D. in marketing programs that meet our ranking criteria, which includes credibility, affordability, student outcomes and student experience. Take a look at what these programs offer.

Why You Can Trust Forbes Advisor Education

Forbes Advisor’s education editors are committed to producing unbiased rankings and informative articles covering online colleges, tech bootcamps and career paths. Our ranking methodologies use data from the National Center for Education Statistics , education providers, and reputable educational and professional organizations. An advisory board of educators and other subject matter experts reviews and verifies our content to bring you trustworthy, up-to-date information. Advertisers do not influence our rankings or editorial content.

• 6,290 accredited, nonprofit colleges and universities analyzed nationwide
• 52 reputable tech bootcamp providers evaluated for our rankings
• All content is fact-checked and updated on an annual basis
• Rankings undergo five rounds of fact-checking
• Only 7.12% of all colleges, universities and bootcamp providers we consider are awarded

Online Marketing Ph.D. Options

Kennesaw state university, national university, degree finder.

Kennesaw State University ’s online Ph.D. in business administration with a marketing concentration is designed for working professionals who want to continue their careers while advancing their education.

Instead of online courses, students attend one weekend residency per month at the Kennesaw, Georgia campus. The Friday-to-Sunday classes explore research methods and data analysis; students also take seminars and prep for their dissertations.

In their third year, students focus on their dissertation requirement without the in-person requirement. Research areas include topics within consumer behavior and marketing strategy.

Graduate online tuition is the same for in-state and out-of-state students: $383 per credit.

At a Glance

• School Type: Public
• Application Fee: $60
• Degree Credit Requirements: 48 credits
• Program Enrollment Options: Full-time
• Notable Major-Specific Courses: Introduction to research, analysis of variance designs
• Concentrations Available: N/A
• In-Person Requirements: Yes, once-a-month weekend residencies

Based in San Diego, National University offers its Ph.D. in business administration in strategic marketing online with no in-person requirements. Once enrolled, students can start any Monday that’s convenient for them.

The program requires a minimum of five core courses, five specialization courses, two statistical courses, five research courses and one doctoral elective, and it takes around six years to complete.

National University is a Yellow Ribbon School that offers exclusive active-duty military and veterans scholarships. Standard tuition is $442 per quarter unit.

• School Type: Private
• Application Fee: Free
• Degree Credit Requirements: 60 credits
• Program Enrollment Options: Full-time, part-time
• Notable Major-Specific Courses: Changing times: business administration in the 21st century, business financial systems
• In-Person Requirements: No

How To Find the Right Online Ph.D. in Marketing for You

If you’ve decided to pursue an online Ph.D. in marketing, consider these essential factors to help guide your search.

Consider Your Future Goals

You can earn two types of doctoral degrees in marketing: a Ph.D. and a Doctor of Business Administration (D.B.A.). Ph.D. programs focus on research and lend themselves to careers in academia or research. D.B.A. programs target business leaders seeking specialized skills.

As an online student, consider the program delivery and whether you need to attend any in-person residencies or classes. Some programs offer classes asynchronously, meaning you can log in when convenient and review lectures during your free time. Other universities require you to attend classes on a scheduled day and time. Consider whether you need the flexibility to study according to your schedule.

In-person residency programs may allow you to graduate faster. But if you attend a school far from home, you’ll have to budget travel expenses and time away from your family or work obligations.

Understand Your Expenses and Financing Options

A Ph.D. from National University costs $26,520, while the same degree from Kennesaw State University costs a minimum of $18,384.

However, the tuition rates for Ph.D. programs vary significantly among schools, depending on whether they are public or private, if you’re in-state or out-of-state, and your enrollment status. If you plan to continue working, check with your employer to see if they offer tuition reimbursement.

You can complete the FAFSA® to determine your federal student loans and other aid eligibility. Your school may also offer scholarships, grants or low-interest loans.

Should You Enroll in a Ph.D. in Marketing Online?

Earning an online doctorate is a great choice if you plan to keep your job, cannot relocate or want to find a lower-cost alternative. Still, you’ll want to consider your learning style, availability and budget.

Learning Style

Can you learn in a virtual environment without the presence of classmates or immediate feedback from the instructor? Logging into classes from wherever it’s most convenient offers a great deal of flexibility, but you’ll have to tune out distractions and stay organized with your coursework.

If you benefit from the structure and real-time engagement offered by in-person classes, opt for a more traditional degree program. The same is true if you’re not savvy with technology.

Availability

Ph.D. programs require a multi-year time commitment, and you’ll have to coordinate your research and dissertation topic with faculty. Consider if you’ll have the time to fulfill the degree requirements.

Also, research the program’s delivery format. Some programs require in-person residencies, which affect your travel and time away from your current commitments. They may also deliver classes synchronously, meaning you need to be present on certain days and times of the week. If your work or personal life is demanding, look for programs delivered asynchronously, meaning you can review the lectures on your own time.

The cost of earning an online Ph.D. in marketing can vary significantly. While earning a degree online allows you to save money on commuting, housing and dining fees, you’ll need to cover your technology costs and any distance learning fees.

Also, private universities often cost more than public institutions, so determine your budget before choosing a program.

Featured Online Schools

Learn about start dates, transferring credits, availability of financial credit and much more by clicking 'Visit Site'

Accreditation for Online Marketing Ph.D. Programs

Before committing your time and money to an online marketing Ph.D. program, it’s essential to make sure the university has institutional accreditation. Accreditation means the university has met stringent quality and academic standards set by an accrediting body.

Attending an institutionally accredited school ensures you can transfer your credits to another university and qualify for federal financial aid. The Council for Higher Education Accreditation maintains a searchable list of accredited colleges, universities and programs.

Programs and departments within universities can apply for programmatic accreditation, which may be required for graduate school acceptance or professional licensure or certification.

​​Business schools with Ph.D. in marketing programs can apply for accreditation from the Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs, the Association to Advance Collegiate Schools of Business, or the International Accreditation Council for Business Education.

Our Methodology

We ranked two accredited, nonprofit colleges offering online marketing Ph.D. programs in the U.S. using 15 data points in the categories of student experience, credibility, student outcomes and affordability. We pulled data for these categories from reliable resources such as the Integrated Postsecondary Education Data System ; private, third-party data sources; and individual school and program websites.

Data is accurate as of February 2024. Note that because online doctorates are relatively uncommon, fewer schools meet our ranking standards at the doctoral level.

We scored schools based on the following metrics:

Student Experience:

• Student-to-faculty ratio
• Socioeconomic diversity
• Availability of online coursework
• Total number of graduate assistants
• Proportion of graduate students enrolled in at least some distance education

Credibility:

• Fully accredited
• Programmatic accreditation status
• Nonprofit status

Student Outcomes:

• Overall graduation rate
• Median earnings 10 years after graduation

Affordability:

• In-state graduate student tuition
• In-state graduate student fees
• Alternative tuition plans offered
• Median federal student loan debt
• Student loan default rate

We listed all two schools in the U.S. that met our ranking criteria.

Find our full list of methodologies here .

Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs) About Earning an Online Ph.D. in Marketing

What is a ph.d. in marketing.

A Ph.D. in marketing is the highest level of education you can earn. Course topics include marketing strategy, data analysis, microeconomics, and examining and researching consumer behavior.

How much can you make with a Ph.D. in marketing?

Your earning potential with a Ph.D. in marketing will vary depending on where you live and whether you pursue a career in academia or business. For example, marketing managers make a median annual wage of $140,040, while professors earn $80,840, the BLS reports.

How long is a Ph.D. in marketing?

Earning your Ph.D. in marketing will take between three and seven years, depending on the program and whether you enroll full or part time.

Is it worth it to get a Ph.D. in marketing?

Only you can determine if completing a Ph.D. in marketing is worth the time and investment involved. Completing a Ph.D. in marketing allows you to become an expert in the field and can increase your salary potential.

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Suzie loves researching, interviewing experts and breaking down complex information into understandable and actionable advice to help others improve their lives. Based in Denver, Suzie and her husband are parents to a 14-year-old boy, a 12-year-old girl and two rescue dogs.

Cloud companies may lease your images for AI learning; what can you do about it?

Photobucket’s recent reveal that its 13 billion images may soon be licensed to teach AI models raises questions about copyright and how to protect your images.

Cloud storage is a useful tool that allows us to back up our images and share them with others quickly. It’s not perfect, though. Constant monthly payments and the possibility of data loss or leaks turn many people away. Now, with the rise of cloud-based companies potentially using your data for AI machine learning, it begs the question: what can we do to keep our files safe and, most importantly, under our own control and private?

We learned recently that Photobucket, one of the internet’s oldest photo and video storage sites, was in talks to license user data to companies wanting to use it to train AI models. In an interview with Reuters, the company’s CEO, Ted Leonard, said, "We need to pay our bills, and this could give us the ability to continue to support free accounts.” This means granting third-party access to the 13 billion images and videos uploaded to the platform.

Changes to T&Cs

It’s possible for Photobucket to do this thanks to an update in its terms and conditions, which gives the company carte blanche to analyze and incorporate data from user images. The privacy policy states, “We, and those third parties we may contract with, may also use your images in a general and anonymous way for training artificial intelligence ("AI") algorithms and/or machine learning models and subsequent commercial uses derived therefrom.”

Cloud companies having the ability to scan user images is nothing new. Popular services such as Dropbox, Google Drive and Adobe Cloud can all scan images, as can many others. Google and Adobe have both been accused of accessing user data to train AI, though both companies deny doing so.

"It’s possible for Photobucket to do this thanks to an update in its terms and conditions."

Personally, I’m not comfortable with anyone other than myself and those I authorize accessing my images. That’s even more true now when there’s no clarity on how severely AI technology will impact those working in the photo industry.

Some may suggest reverting to backing up images locally to a hard drive. For many, including myself, this isn’t a realistic option. As someone who travels a lot, I find storing my files in the cloud much easier than carrying multiple hard drives whenever I’m on the move.

Finding privacy in the cloud

Thankfully, there are alternatives to the status quo and several cloud services that emphasize keeping user data private, away from the eyes of company employees and third parties. Of course, every service can update its T&Cs, but it would be bad business for those who have marketed themselves as taking user privacy seriously.

Over five years, I’ve tested and reviewed dozens of cloud storage services. The first question I ask when looking at a service is: does it offer zero-knowledge encryption? This type of encryption gives the user a unique key, which even the software developer can not access, and by extension, means they can’t grant third-party companies access to your files. This means only the user, or those they share their encryption key with, can access their data.

"The first question I ask when looking at a service is: does it offer zero-knowledge encryption?"

When considering platforms that offer zero-knowledge encryption, it can be difficult to know where’s best to back up your files. Having tried the good and the bad, there are some services I feel confident recommending to others.

The two I’m currently using are pCloud and Sync.com, as I find them the easiest to use, and the pricing, overall, is affordable. They’re both available on desktop and mobile and offer useful features for photographers and videographers, which I’ll break down in more detail.

pCloud was one of the first services I used. It has fast sync speeds and no file size limits, making it ideal for those working with large files. It also has a built-in native media player to view high-resolution images and videos.

Unfortunately, pCloud charges extra for zero-knowledge encryption, so you’ll pay $4.99 more on top of your standard monthly fee, which is between $4-$8 per month on selected plans. Personal plans max out at 2TB of storage space, which some users may find limiting.

With Sync.com , users don’t need to pay extra for zero-knowledge encryption, as it’s incorporated into all plans, including the free plan. Personal plans also offer up to 6TB of storage space and unlimited monthly data transfers.

One limitation: sync speeds are not the quickest, with uploads and download speeds being considerably slower than other options. Also, moving files around can feel cumbersome, with the drag-and-drop function not being the smoothest.

Other zero-knowledge cloud alternatives

If you find these services' storage space too limited, Mega is a good alternative. Personal plans reach up to 16TB of storage space, and zero-knowledge encryption is included at no extra cost, although monthly plans are costly. Personal plans can cost up to $32 per month, though you can reduce this to $26 if you pay annually.

IDrive is a good option for those not ready to go all-in with cloud storage, as it offers both local and cloud-based backup for your data. You can clone your entire disk (including operating system and applications) and IDrive will mail out a copy in the event of a complete machine malfunction. The cloud aspect works like any other service, allowing you to upload, download and share your files with others, and they’re all protected with zero-knowledge encryption.

In closing, my intention here is not to fearmonger. The reality is more brands are using AI imagery. More apps are being made to generate AI imagery, and cloud companies are gaining the power to use our (real) photographs to help it all happen while making more money.

I want no part of that. It’s more important than ever to have complete control over our photographs and to ensure cloud companies don’t maximize their bottom line at the expense of our privacy. To not be complicit in this, we must seek out alternative services to store our images. Not only to ensure our privacy but also to ensure we help protect the future of our industry.

A decade and more ago, concerned for my work, I found myself on the phone to a Paris image library. I was informed then that both Apple & microsoft had enormous photolibraries our use of their OS's gave them, regardless of our own "intellectual property rights" and that the only way to sell work safely was by using low res previews of images on a server separate from the drives you keep the originals on, because if you use your work machine online they just can come in and take whatever they fancy anytime, as can your antivirus etc. Nothing is free. However you think of this reality, it is the way it crumbles cookie-wise, so to stop theft do not have originals on a machine you use on the internet. Simply use that machine for previews and sales after the client has paid, and only put your raw file for that client on it for the duration of the sale, simples...

Images of faces and eyes are biometric data used for security purposes. I find it alarming.

Well, unfortunately there isn't much you can do about it other than not share your images online in any form. Luckily I never really caught on to things like Facebook, Instagram (that much, at least any more than I have to be on there), among other platforms. And yet another reason I DO NOT participate in online challenges. This is getting a bit pathetic though, and sad, for people who want to share their content though, but are reluctant to because it will be stolen basically for whatever purposes. Some perhaps less harmful than others (ie. research and development maybe, but for others, for commercial use -- but in both cases, the photographer is generally not being compensated for such usage). This needs to change, but unfortunately, each country will likely interpret such laws (if they ever come to fruition) differently in what the photographer can/cannot do to prevent or pursue images that are used without consent.

Who cares. It will happen with or without your pathetic images. They've already assimilated hundreds of billions. 13 people from DPreview will not even be a drop in the bucket.

Using a 'cloud' service is the same as storing your data on someone else's computer, which has obvious downsides.

You imply that DropBox allows for AI scraping, but I can't find anywhere in the EULA that mentions this possibility. Can you provide proof of your statement?

Without zero-knowledge encryption, any service has the ability to do this. If they will, time will tell. But, in a time of uncertainty, for me it's a better idea to upload files to a service that is not able to scrape later down the line.

I would also say that some EULAs also have generic text that gives them the ability to perform such tasks against content for "research" and "analysis purposes" or even "internal purposes". The wording is usually different depending on the EULA but means basically the same thing -- they can use your data to improve their products, and my guess is that scraping images and using them internally to improve AI functionality may fall under such clauses. But most people likely don't read the EULA word for word so they just blindly agree to the terms and move on.

What can you do? If you use their service, find a photo of their CEO, upload it as a prompt to some AI with instructions to the AI engine to "modify" it in some shall we say "interesting" way, and then upload the result to social media and see if he likes it!

Even better. Let's all make an AI account and ask whatever AI to a lot of pictures of people with 5 arms, cats with horns and buildings with legs and a tail. Now upload all those thousands of pictures to your favorite cloud company. Let them use your pictures to train future AI.

What can you do about it? Don't use them.

When i see the word Photobucket i feel the urge to say something: Worst ever image hosting site I've used.

That's the news! How could it be otherwise? ))) Are people really so naive that they continue to believe that by placing their data in any cloud, this data does not fall at the disposal of the cloud owner? Look at what's going on in the world - everyone is deceiving each other. Do you need privacy in the cloud? Then put ONLY encrypted files there. Moreover, encryption should not be a ZIP password, but an open and serious software.

I PAY for a cloud storage (not mentioned here but it's called Jottacloud) and images of me are on Getty Images.

The paid subscription and the agreement I have with Getty Images is saying nothing about (mis)use of my images for AI purposes. If so, they should notify me

No surprises there. That's why so many companies are so keen to have you use their cloud services.

From what I read here in the comments section, I'm not sure what people see to object against zero-knowledge encryption (if done right) - which is what you do if you opt undiscriminatingly against cloud storage.

Who wrote this article? It's misleading and somewhat alarmist to claim that all cloud services might use private images for training purposes. These claims need solid evidence. While Photobucket may be exploring this option, it's not standard practice across the industry, nor does it reflect the inherent risks of using other cloud storage services. Indeed, Photobucket might be jeopardizing its own standing by considering this approach. On the other hand, cloud services generally offer a secure and reliable option for data protection, especially for those lacking a robust backup strategy. It's crucial to remember that a NAS device alone does not constitute a backup, and adhering to the 3-2-1 backup principle is essential to safeguard valuable data effectively. Proton is also a good option.

Perhaps your "... claims need solid evidence." Do you expect us to believe that cloud services would not take advantage of seemingly quite legal business opportunities? Their shareholders may have something to say about that.

Does DPreview do the same with galleries photos? Would you?

I wonder too.

Is this mentioned in dpreview robots text file?

User-agent: GPTBot Disallow: /

Might well be that DPreview (and images) is scraped by a large number of AI initiatives.

For stills I'm not sure why a HDD is a huge issue. 5TB drives are tiny these days and don't cost much. Even a couple don't take up much room in a carry on.

If that's not big enough trying to upload TB of data on a hotel WiFI is likely a bigger issue than the hassle of carrying a HDD.

That portability is not the problem...but in this 'sharing age' a large part of us want to share everything and anything...and as quickly as possible....and 'for free' of course

You’re right that the weight isn’t an issue. Being on the move a lot increases the chance of wear and tear, misplacing the drive and can decrease the longevity of the drive, leading to malfunction. Plus, depending on where you are in the world it’s not always easy to replace with the same standard of quality. So all in all the cloud works best, for me at least.

@Dan Ginn: A couple of 4TB SSD’s in Thunderbolt cases are sturdy. Speed is in the 10-20 times HDD range (even with fully encrypted content), so… a spare cable or two no problem.

Wear and tear depends on treatment… virtually nothing will survive for long in the hands of a person with a dumpster-attitude ;-)

Replacement in most of the World, unless you frequently visit off-beat places like two hours by longboat out of Puerto Maldonado along Rio de Madre de Dios, is easy in real life. Even there, replacement cases, cables and top notch Samsung 990 Pro 4TB SSD licorice sticks are only a few days away from nearest Amazon or Alibaba; even in the midst of Sahara dozens of miles from the nearest thing resembling any road, conditions are mostly the same.

In short: You’re not even contemplating bothering ;-)

What about Backblaze?

Backblaze has end-to-end encryption with a Personal Encryption Key and other encryption options. All data is encrypted on the servers. I created a PEK when I initially set-up my Backblaze account in 2019. I store the 30-character 170-bit key in my password manager separate from my Backblaze login credentials.

Of course, if the user loses their PEK, there is no backdoor to access stored images. Users can opt to use the default public/private keys option which makes it possible for Backblaze to assist them if they lose their password.

Scroll-down on the following page and click "Easy Encryption" to read how it all works in greater detail:

https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-storage/security

Pretty obvious. What are you doing with your images stored on cloud services anyway? You have lost all your rights, so either suck it up or stop doing it.

You ask me ?!? … Okay, easy .. Do not even start putting my photos in the « Cloud »…

These sort of reminders are always good .. Thx

That is terrible advice because it assumes that all Cloud services operate the same way.

Cloud data services are a very good way to protect your data should your local backups are destroyed, stolen or data loss occurs due to software, hardware or user failure.

Free or paid image sharing services (like Photobucket) with EULAs that state they may access images at their discretion are to be avoided.

Cloud data backup and syncing services that have data privacy-oriented EULAs and end-to-end encryption with customer data encrypted on their servers are OK. A "private key" where the user holds the encryption key is the best option because there is no "backdoor" available. But if you lose the key, you are out of luck.

Personally I am OK with continuing to use Apple Photos for nearly all of my images. If my pictures would be used to train AI I would not have a big problem with that but understand and respect that others have concerns with that. But I still wish that the companies would make it easier and more transparent for users and not bury the relevant text in long document with Terms and Conditions. Instead text regulating external use of our images should be clearly presented & written. Perhaps allowing AI usage should warrant a lower subscription fee.

Yes why not. Also have rent free of my Wife and Kids for no charge and feel free to use my pool...NOT!

Just get a NAS. I am a techie, and I use the "Cloud" every day. However, when it comes to my personal photos, none of them are stored in the cloud. To be honest, it's not due to privacy reasons but rather financial considerations. The NAS is a cost-effective solution for me. Besides, most of the NAS solutions allow you to access them if you configure them to that.

Yes a home NAS setup like a personal cloud.

OTOH a good chunk of the people here are tech savvy enough to stay on top of the thing. Security has been a serious issue with some of the premade cloud solutions which by definition need to be open to the net.

What do you do to protect against catastrophic events like a fire destroying your house / apartment? Or a lightning strike frying all your electricals?

Offsite backups. Just like the old days.

But the same way you can automatically upload to the cloud you can backup to a NAS offsite.

The question like always is the cost worth the value of your images.

What NAS are you using? I'll admit, part of Google Photos appeal isn't just the cloud storage, but the easy search of photos without needing to tag them. I've heard some good things about Synology's photos solution but haven't really had the chance to try them (because you know, need to get the NAS first).

it's just the opposite for me. I would have to have to pay for 5 instances of Microsoft office for my family, then setup 3 servers since I would need one here in my home, one in the mother in law's, then another at my sons apartment 4.5 hours away. So, It's financially cheaper for me to pay the 130 bucks a year for Microsoft's 365 account. Now, if they start using my images for training AI, then I want compensation for all of that. So a year or two of free 365.

NAS is not cheap, it requires a level of tech savvy that many people do not have nor do many people have an alternative site available for a second "offsite" NAS, assuming a natural disaster does not wipe out both NAS locations.

Cloud data backups with unlimited data transfers and storage can be had at a reasonable cost. Backblaze costs $100 per computer annually and it offers all of the end-to-end and personal key encryption options one needs to prevent data access from inside and outside the company. Folks needing to backup multiple computers can use a service that offers a family/group plan.

If you are a self-professed "techie" that cannot afford around $8 a month to protect all of your data, you have bigger problems. . .

If you're in a remote area good luck uploading to that cloud service. The article mentions not wanting to carry an external HDD because of travel. Well if you're traveling there is no guarantee you'll be able to upload to the cloud.

But no matter how good your cloud provider is you can't be sure TOMORROW they won't announce they've closed down. Or will be closing down. You still need your own backups.

I'm fine with the idea of using cloud for one of your offsite backups but more than that?

Really, what do you expect when you upload your pictures onto someone else's computer?

I've always taken the position that any file I upload to the web is one I'm fine being used for whatever.

But that's not what is happening here. Until GitHub Copilot was found to be a security disaster of epic proportions, the problem many saw was that not the code itself, but the skill required for creating it was being extracted (aside from licensing issues).

In biblical terms, GitHub (Microsoft) was teaching the AI to fish.

This is the same problem here - even if the bread on YOUR table doesn't come from photography, by contributing into a repository that permits using images to teach an AI, you may be taking the bread off someone else's table. And that is always going to be a divisive question - should this other person get to put bread on their table, or "suck it up"?

I'm not responsible for your dinner plate. Anymore than I'm responsible for that factory welder getting replaced by a welding robot. Or that McDonald's cashier getting replaced by a touchscreen display.

It's really great to have that conviction that when the monster comes, you'll just swing out of its way. Because that's the kind of person you are, confident, self-determined, intelligent, flexible. All the people who get eaten think that, too.

Dude. Whatever. Guilt shame does not work on me.

Go ahead and blame me for having to sit at that red light on your way home from work while you are at it. See how much better your life becomes for it.

If it's free you're the product. A saying that beautifully rhymes in french and that i've been following since the 2000s. Accept it or deny it but take your own decisions and live with it.

No one gets anything for free from me in this way. And as you say yes its been a long time and way before AI. They have been using any data they can since it was possible to gain data.

We could all be getting little paychecks from these companies, but nope, again the masses give everything away for free to these companies.

And heaven knows that, here in the US of A anyway, we certainly can't ask any of these mega-Corporations, some of which are among the most profitable in the literal recorded history of money, to pay anything approaching their fair share in taxes. Or in many cases, to actually pay *any taxes at all.* On aggregate, trillions of dollars in wealth.

Yep. There is no cloud, it's just someone else's computer. And if it's free, then you're the product.

"Si c'est gratuit, tu es le produit."

Is that the one? I can't pronounce it but it sure looks good. :-D

Don't use clouds and back up your images on multiple locations.

I realize it's Sunday so this article may get more attention during the week, but it's almost as if "systems" and "companies" wear people down. Expected more concern.

It is interesting how most people dont know or care.

If its not on our computer its on someone elses computer = its not ours, its theirs.

Any fine print says they are not responsible for what happens with our stuff. The blind trust is odd.

Its like letting go of the steering wheel to let the car steer. Doing that takes a massive amount of blind trust. But most people will do it.

Its like apps that need bluetooth(which is most of them, and I refuse to use them.) The app doesnt need bluetooth, the company is collecting very personal data.

But again, people dont care.

If I had photos on that service, I personally wouldn’t be concerned if they were being trawled for AI training, especially if it meant lower prices for users of the site. It’s not as if some employee is looking at my photos one by one, asking ‘let’s see what Bob did last weekend’. Rather, a non-sentient programme is racing through millions of images from myself and thousands of other people to detect patterns. What is the impact on me? What is the risk to me? It’s nothing like letting an autonomous car take over the driving for you.

The physical danger is not the same, just the attitudes of most people.

You choose to give your photos to someone you dont know for whatever reason they want, not whatever reason you want/can imagine. For free. Even if you own stock in the company you arnt making what they are from your stuff.

You know what you are doing so youve made a choice. Look at all the folks who arnt even interested in this article.

But what exactly is the attitude you’re talking about? You’ve gone from a lack of concern about AI training programs trawling online content to your photos being used by people ‘for what any reason they want’. That’s a big leap. I wouldn’t have a problem with my images being used for AI training if I’m informed of it and if it will keep my fees down. I would have a problem with an individual image of mine being used by a company in its publicity materials without attribution or permission. What bothers you so much about a program spending a few milliseconds analysing your images among many thousands others for a purpose you might actually benefit from?

And just what does it mean when someone's image is used for AI training?

It means that yours, and my, and their, images get used to train AI models to make pictures that later remove bread from working photographers' tables. With no compensation to us or to them. Just more CEO yachts and private jets, along with the vast and intractable ecological damage from all that power use and heat generation from the vast server farms.

Remind me again what the upside of this is..? I mean, for those of us who don't have millions of dollars in shares of these companies?

Hi Docno, I didnt change my concern of anything.

I have 0 photos on the internet/someone elses computer.

I dont see any big leap either.

If its not on your computer, its on theirs. They will use it for whatever they want. We can only use our imagination to guess all the uses. Those uses make them money though, not you.

And your photos are not private in any sense. Pretty sure any legal stuff will end up as our fault for giving it to them.

They should pay for the use of our photos training AI.

For all other uses including AI training, lack of privacy bothers me.

Also, I do a lot of street photography. So its other peoples privacy as well.

They will never get my photos nor will I ever use an App that "needs" bluetooth enabled. They should ask and pay, or not get them.

Maybe people feel like these free services are worth a lot to them, and concluded to allow pretty much anything. If people even consider this at all.

Training AI. Doesn't someone have to tell the system what a given image represents for starters. What is embedded in an image, explicit or what can be surmised.

"reverting to backing up images locally to a hard drive. ...For ... myself, this isn’t a realistic option. ...I find storing my files in the cloud much easier than carrying multiple hard drives whenever I’m on the move." I guess you realize yourself that's a really lame argument, since we don't have to carry our glass plates around anymore.

Storage is cheap. To the point that you could buy a dedicated hard drive, back up to it, then put it in a safe deposit box. Do that a couple times a year, and you have backups for decades.

Although I don't travel a lot and keep my own data, I'm thinking, would getting a NAS or a server at a more permanent place to serve as personal cloud be a viable option? So when I travel, I can upload my data remotely.

IDrive has NAS support on all its plans. Good option to mix physical and cloud backup.

You can also buy various NAS solutions that may be set up to send your pictures to; or even roll your own NAS. It can be easily done with an old computer because it doesn't really take a lot of CPU grunt to file data away. I've got a 15 year old HP microserver with dual 1.3GHz Athlon CPUs. No great shakes as a modern computer with its 4GB of RAM and pretty much SVGA 2D framebuffer graphics and no physical soundcard.. but it's quite adequate as a Linux based data storage unit.

Thanks for the insights guys. :-)

I reckon DIY server cloud is not for the ordinary folks like me. NAS looks to be a more friendly choice. I'll check out iDrive plans.

Worse they will copy photos shared until they get caught then apologize and face little if any consequence. If you do not want it used, keep it offline.

Cloud storage companies using people’s photos to feed into AI training. Ok, then those same people may benefit from that when using AI, as AI cannot generate something out of nothing. Same for humans. But this consolidates the idea that anything that isn't physically with us, isn’t really ours. That goes for our money in the bank for example…

This is essentially why I stopped using the ultra-convenient and super-easy Google Drive to store my images, texts, and original music files. In addition to AI training, however, is that Google seems poised to scan users' "content" for politically-incorrect material, however that might be interpreted, as it does with YouTube videos, and quite possibly with Gmail messages.

Such is also why I quit Instagram when its Dec., 2020 changes to its ToS included scanning the contents of users' devices – contacts, text messages, open applications, et al., violating the privacy also of those with whom IG users have been in contact – as well as analyzing it as to whether one be a "threat to public safety," however that might stand to be interpreted.

AI bots scan public music-streaming sites such as Soundcloud. Once it's posted publicly, your "content" of any medium gets used for training AI.

I do not store anything in cloud. Only email, but even that gets moved to Thunderbird twice a year. Local backups are enough for me.

I do not use Cloud-based image sharing services. But I do avail myself of end-to-end encrypted Cloud data services because local backups can fail due to fire, theft, hardware/software issues and laziness.

I know one photographer who lost all of his locally archived digital images, many years of original location photography. If he had a Cloud backup the incident would have been a hassle but not catastrophic.

Start a DoQ attack.. Denial of Quality. Give 'em crappy pix. :-D

I'm way ahead of you - I've been producing crappy photos for 30 years.

The AI from my pics is gonna be so many blurry, six fingered rock tribute band photos :-D Just squint and turn your head 90 degrees, it totally looks like Bowie!

Another reason not to use cloud storage, free or otherwise. Companies need money to stay afloat, but offering free accounts does not help them in the long term. The issue today is most software/service companies have not been realistic with pricing and services for years, so users now have to suffer the consequences for not doing enough homework before saying yes I want the account.

Maybe the ad based revenue model is breaking down. Or more likely, they're just finding more ways to enhance Corporate greed.

It's not a reason to avoid using Cloud storage. . . But if you insist on only using free or lower-cost options, you are going to get what you didn't pay for and you may not like it. It applies to other online services too.

Good to know. Thanks for the heads up...

"Photobucket, one of the internet’s oldest photo and video storage sites, was in talks to license user data to companies wanting to use it to train AI models...CEO Ted Leonard said, 'We need to pay our bills, and this could give us the ability to continue to support free accounts. This means granting third-party access to the 13 billion images and videos uploaded to the platform.'

Your business started before the advent of AI, so to claim you can only survive by selling access to your users' copyrighted images means you are (a) lying or (b) have a non-viable business plan and should either start charging for your service or shutdown your site.

I'm going with option A

Photobucket went to H*** in a handbasket years ago. I'm going with option B.

Realistically, you cannot do anything about it. Using your photos for training obviously leaves no trace, and you cannot control or verify whether a 3rd party will honor any agreement of not using your data for other purposes. And you won't ever "find" or "see" your particular photos in the output the model generates. AI is a very lucrative business that depends at its core on large amounts of training data sets. The profit is so large that big companies will never hesitate to simply use your photos, videos, etc., regardless of your consent. That's the way it is, unfortunately.

"And you won't ever "find" or "see" your particular photos in the output the model generates."

I anticipate there will be landmark cases where exactly that will have been the case. Somebody's specific scar or weird ear will turn up somewhere and the photographer and subject will present a joint case - something like that. We just haven't seen enough use of AI for what currently seems unlikely to become an everyday occurrence.

@dccdp - "Using your photos for training obviously leaves no trace..." :

Not really. The way that today's "AI" works is to ingest human created source material and then use that 'verbatim' material to generate "new" output material. It is sort of a sophisticated automation of plagiarism. There are techniques to cause "AI" to dump fragments of the original source material. Here's one technique started by pumping random noise into a neural net that was designed to recognize dogs: https://vimeo.com/132700334 (warning: it is a bit nightmarish).

Similar plagiarist behavior has been observed in other domains. For example a network trained on other human written software code has been observed basically copying parts of people's hand written algorithms.

Anytime someone proffers the cynical "argument" that we "cannot do anything about it" I immediately discount their opinion and move on. I'm not going to change the mind of anyone who believes that something is hopeless, so why bother trying?

Fact is, many times there IS something that can be done and using our personal property i.e. images can be prevented. If you aren't willing to forgo one or two overpriced Starbucks coffee drinks a month to pay for it, that's your problem, not mine. . .

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